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 Save the brawl?

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Windrider
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PostSubject: Save the brawl?   Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:30 pm

So yeah they are trying to change the settings on the brawl.. please voice your opinion so it can stay ctf and not change to fort w/ flags

http://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=21999&start=15

^^ topic

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regedit
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:01 am

May i make a suggestion as to the changes:

The main problem that they are talking about is that people are base camping, and not focusing on the flag.
Flag problem can be fixed by increasing flag points and decreasing round win times but that leads to mass suicides etc...
So how about we add a delayed auto spawn (i am pretty sure that can be done), say 30/20 sec after someone is killed, if the haven't been spawned
they get automatically spawned.
This will fix the problem of base camping (atleast prolonged base camping) but still retain the temporary advantage of killing an opponent. It would also make mass suicides slightly harder to co-ordinate.

Just wanted to ask your opinion, before suggesting it.



Last edited by regedit on Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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Anarchy

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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:04 am

can someone explain the mass suicide thing, i dont understand that part, cause i've never heard that mentioned until now, and when i was reading the rules for ctf hosted by U no mass suicides was a rule, whats the purpose of it?
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regedit
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:37 am

Mass suicide is used, wan the flag is worth more than then a round win.
So when it is a critical moment, and a team is in a position to cash the flag (not the technical term) the opposing team can
mass suicide, i.e. everyone suicides.
As the flag is worth more than then win, for example the flag is worth 8 and the win is worth 4, the team which was about to
cash the flag, gets 4 points instead of the 8 they could have gotten.

[EDIT]
Or it could just be used when you are in the lead by more than the points awarded for round win, and dont want to risk the
opposing team catching up.
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Marshmellow

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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:20 am

Reg's edit is the more obvious of the two and most notably performed by Rx (Twisted Rats) before it became illegal. When one team is up 58-4 after the first round, at the start of the second, third, and fourth round they would all die. This is called a mass suicide. the other team would be awarded 8 points per round, a total of 24 points, but would still lose 58-28. In essence, it allows 0% of a comback. There was a huge debate about this on the forums because some people said that if a team was down that bad anyways, they don't really have a chance to come back. However, the majority voted it illegal and so that's how it is today.

HOWEVER, over time, mass suicide has become less obvious, like Reg's first explanation of mass suicide. When a team is outnumbered, and the opposing team has the flag and is on their way back to score and they're also flag camping, base camping, and defending , sometimes it's better to just do mass suicide so that they don't get the flag points on top of the round win points. It's hard to tell when few players do this because they can blame it on lag or finger lag. There's no way to know for sure. (IMO, R and Titan are most notorious for this).

As for the original topic, I agree with reg's delayed spawn idea. It's practical, and honestly, we can just try it for the next tourney and if it doesn't work out, move on to the next idea. But I really like that one.
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regedit
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:34 am

Does any one not agree with my idea, just want to make sure before posting.
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Tru
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:04 pm

was not first noticable mass suicide used by ww some years ago in final of ctf tourney? when scoring was 1 for kill, 2 for win and 4 for flag ? they got 10 pt in first round then suicide 4 times in a row so score was like 10 v 8 and ww won
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regedit
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:23 pm

are you ok with the proposal tru?
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:07 pm

lol

and thanks guys for taking time to explain.
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Marshmellow

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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:23 pm

Tru wrote:
was not first noticable mass suicide used by ww some years ago in final of ctf tourney? when scoring was 1 for kill, 2 for win and 4 for flag ? they got 10 pt in first round then suicide 4 times in a row so score was like 10 v 8 and ww won

You have better memory than I do, tru. You could be right. I just remember Rx doing it against us (R) in the semis. We lost because Ww said it wasn't designated as ilegal yet. I believe Rx played Ww in the finals. So that may be when they did the mass suicide against Rx because, once again, it wasn't illegal yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:33 pm

Yeah I could go with a delayed respawn but it has to be more than 20/30 seconds it needs to be more like a couple mins

I think it should be a quarter of the round time that way you can spawn four times per match from delayed spawns so bc when they have one or 2 left still means something but it wont stop them forever
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:36 pm

also, mass suicides are illegal now, not saying spawning isn't bad even without it though


anyone want to try new server?
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:07 pm

sexybeast wrote:
Yeah I could go with a delayed respawn but it has to be more than 20/30 seconds it needs to be more like a couple mins

I think it should be a quarter of the round time that way you can spawn four times per match from delayed spawns so bc when they have one or 2 left still means something but it wont stop them forever

If it's 1/4 match, is it like Gears of War where the entire team spawns at the same time, no matter when they died, or do the individual persons have to wait 1/4 match's time after they die to spawn?
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sexybeast
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:38 pm

individual players have to wait 1/4 match time
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:57 pm

round or match (haven't been in a ctf brawl before so idk if its like U server with dz and all or ww or what...)
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sexybeast
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:41 pm

round
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:03 pm

if its 5 min per round, 1/4 of that would be 1min 15seconds. I suggest just rounding down to 1 min.
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:56 am

well fine then

i also had another idea what if the auto respawn was shorter say 20/30 s but if an enemy touched the opposing base the auto respwan would reset that way bc would become impractical and you could still have an advantage for killing people after you got the flag just hit the base and you have enough time to make it back for sure

just an idea
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regedit
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:58 am

so then the enemy cannot respawn the other team?
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:27 pm

no the enemy could not respawn the other team which could be a downfall but this also eliminates bc and there is auto res so im not sure why you would need to spawn the enemy team
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:11 pm

If the enemy touching the base prevented the enemy team from ressing, dont you think they would basecamp even more?
That's the problem we're trying to get rid of.
With the delayed autores, the enemy team will spawn no matter what.
Basecamping would be decreased and only needed if the enemy obtained the flag.
If you could stop the autores, it'd be the same as not having it at all, and people would basecamp the entire time.
It just adds a problem to a solution.

I still say yes to delayed autores, no to enemy can prevent autores.
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:45 pm

the thing with that is they would have to be in the base, but even with a 30 sec auto spawn if the whole team dies at the same time doesn't the round start over or can they make that not happen?
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:36 pm

mass suicide is illegal and not the problem they are trying to solve.
the focus is the prevention of base camping (basically making it illegal) and refocusing on capturing the flag
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Windrider
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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:38 pm

It's not basecamping that is the problem. It is that they no longer focus on the flag and just focus on killing off the other team.
I feel basecamping is a critical skill to have in ctf and taking that away would only cripple the community

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PostSubject: Re: Save the brawl?   Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:50 pm

i didnt mean mass suicide but i guess your right chances of that are super slim if at all... k nvm
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